Thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the very first session of the CEOs APR idea.
My name is Barbara manager. I work with the Association for progressive communications and PPC is a civil society organization and we're an international network.
And we focus on the use of ice teas.
And we focus on the use of ICT to achieve social, environmental and gender justice, and at ABC we have been working over the past few years to really strengthen and support the digital rights movement in Asia, and we've come to recognize that one of the
very important ways of doing that is to also be able to enable the participation of really diverse voices of people and communities, especially those who are perhaps under represented or otherwise marginalized in Internet Governance spaces like this one.
And I think for the region processes like the APR IGF are extremely important because it's an opportunity for those people and those groups to be able to connect with really diverse stakeholder groups and speak about issues that matter to them and that
impact them.
But I think we can all acknowledge that it's not always that easy. There are challenges for these groups to be able to engage effectively, it's sometimes hard to understand how processes like this work, what the agenda of different stakeholders might
be and how you can actually approach them and engage with them.
And so what we really wanted to do in today's session is to provide an opportunity for us to hear from an amazing panel that represents very key stakeholder groups, the government, private sector and the technical community, and also more importantly
to hear from people who are new to this process, both on the panel and hopefully all of you in the audience as well, to then understand collectively how we can engage in these processes with each other, more effectively and to make this a much more inclusive
space.
So thank you and welcome once again to this panel today, I will begin by introducing our panel, and I'm sure that they need no introduction, because all of them are extremely well established members of the API Jeff already.
And we are we will be joined by one more member which is Mr Satish Baba will join us in a few minutes but let me go ahead with the introductions first.
So I'm very very happy to have forced with us. Guy three candidate who is the head of technology and human rights at the business and human rights Resource Center and we are jointly organizing the session with them today which I'm very happy about.
Guys, an international human rights lawyer who's been engaging with internet processes for a long time and is an active member of the big F, and in her current role.
She focuses primarily on advocating with technology companies and with the private sector on adopting a rights based approach in their policies and practices.
Although he is not here today, I'd also like to introduce as yet. Satish, who is a programmer by qualification. He's been a long standing member of course of the I triple E Computer Society.
He is currently the chair of the Asian Australasian and Pacific Islands regional at large organization at icon, and of course he is also the current chair of the Asia Pacific School of internet governance and an active member of the PR IGF.
We also have with us forecast person who is an assistant director at the Pakistan telecommunications authority, and he has over 14 years of regulatory experience.
That includes international coordination stakeholder engagement Internet governance and civil society engagement. He is president of the Internet Society Pakistan Islam about chapter, and also of course he's the current vice chair of the API gf.
And finally, we have with us Kelly co who is a program officer at the center project which is a civil tech organization based in Malaysia.
They work on making data public and accessible with open data and technology. She coordinates internet sensitive projects with an interest in digital rights issues.
So it really is, as I said a fantastic panel, and we have Satish who's joined us as well welcome Satish. Thanks so much for being here.
Before we begin with brief interventions from our panel. I'd also want to say that we hope that this will be an extremely interactive session because as I said, we really want to be able to collectively come together to think about how it is that we can
better engage here. And before I ask our panel to start the interventions, I'd like to pose three questions to all of you here in the audience, and of course to our online audience as well, which we will post in the chat on zoom, which I hope you can
think about and I really encourage all of you to share your thoughts with us further on in the session. And really what we'd like to hear from you is this right, I think, to begin with, we'd like to hear from you, your experiences with Internet governance
processes how it's been in the past, but more importantly to be good to hear from you on some of the challenges that you faced when you enter a process like this for the first time or when you've engaged with a particular stakeholder group who you think
is important for the work that you do.
And we also really like to hear from you on what you think, can be done better by the stakeholder groups and question, but as well as processes like this one to make sure that we are much more engaged and much more inclusive, to all of the groups that
we like to have here. And of course if you have any questions for our panelists, that would be great to hear from you as well.
With that, I will move on to our great panel and I would like to start with you, selfish. And I know that you wear two hats here, one I think is someone who's been a long standing member of the technical community, who's done a lot of work in that area
in terms of Internet Governance but also as the chair of the Asia Pacific School of Internet Governance which had two wonderful days just before this, and I think there can be no better start to that, than to hear you speak about the experiences some
of the fellows have had.
So if you'd like to tell us a little bit about that.
Please stop me if my time's up to do it. Hi, good morning and lamb Satish and I represent a PC on the, on the podium here right now. And I'd like to share a few thoughts on what transpired in the last several months while we are planning for etc and what
are the challenges basically that came up. I think our primary objective in organizing the group of cohort of fellows, was to have diversity, of course, ensure that we build the practitioners community, and also start debating on or continue debate, especially
since we are covered covered related kind of locked down for two years.
You know continue the debate that we were having earlier, and at one city schools.
Now the media challenges that we felt was about diversity. Now when you take the Asia Pacific region. It's a fairly big region with probably some 10 to 12 time zones.
I think 50 plus countries.
What do we really mean by diversity in such a context. Now the fellowship committee received applications from applicants all over the region. And they were mandated to make the selection in such a way to promote that to promote diversity.
Now the challenge here is, we have the teeth lots of fellowships.
We have over 50 countries.
We have two agendas, or maybe three or maybe more.
So on what basis do you divide this this 30 among this diversity and what are the kind of no fairness equitability issues that come up.
For instance, there are some very large countries. There are some very small countries. So do we consider them at par.
There are some very small countries. So do we continue the math part. So it was actually a major challenge. Now I will not get into details of how the, and they were of course this time they were to fellowship committees working in parallel, then kind of merging their results coming up with one single list.
so it is actually a fairly involved process.
And we are now observing the the the the the downstream effects that was the was the group, kind of cohesive.
It was actually quite interesting to watch the diversity in action. So there were a few weaknesses, it meant that some of the large countries where there were a lot of competition for fellowship, the people who got through were really really good because
they have survived the competition in smaller countries where the competition is less perhaps it was possible that people without much of a background.
Now this background is not a big issue as far as a parent is concerned, which is the kind of other half of the fellowship. But if you say it is again a challenge because everything is supposed to be an intermediary level school.
It is not a national school which is the first step towards internet covenant, whereas for if you are a gf even first step newcomers are welcome.
So these are the challenges you know the cross cutting issues. So, so the 15 people that ABC kind of identified where, you know, kind of slightly higher on the journey towards internal governance, or their experience exposure.
So, so in the in the final. When we actually watch the fellowship cohort in action.
We find that some of these fields were, you know, Miss kind of overly we thought it overthought it perhaps the fellows were completely at ease with each other.
There were no great challenges in terms of the differences in the levels that didn't matter finally because if you look at the the participation and the interactivity in the class.
of keeping our fingers crossed found that that was not a challenge, finally. Now, the journey is not over the actual outcome that we expect is in the future, the occupation the class is not the undefeated all.
What we're looking forward to is how this is going to turn off the future, how we these individuals are going to contribute to the overall discuss how they're going to contribute their own communities.
These are the things that we are watching out for. And we hope that the challenges that that we thought, and Britain see on the floor, the program will not be insurmountable issues and for the future.
It gives us some pointers, so I'll stop here. Thank you very much. Thanks. Thanks so much.
And I think that's an interesting perspective and it's something that we've grappled as well with the API right you have to make sure that, for instance the sessions that we have are as, as you said as diverse and represent as many groups as possible.
I'm going to come back to you on engagement with the technical community but I want to ask you have occurs, as someone who represents government. And I think that the government is of course an extremely important stakeholder someone that all of us need
to engage with how they do the battles of rights, but oftentimes that might be hard sometimes processes that will pick.
As someone who's new to the process.
How do you think they should go about engaging with the government What do you foresee some of the challenges that people might have to navigate. Okay.
Thank you.
I think I'll probably have a take on this from from two angles. One is the, is how government is participating in a parish.
And secondly, how has API gf as an organization, being engaging with the comments and a government level.
Now taking the second part first.
Many of you are not familiar with the API Jeff process, I'd like to explain to you that usually when we have to host an API gf account this conference, there is an RFP that goes out and a government usually bit towards the API gf next year.
Not till 2019 this trend had been continued very well, we had, local, we call them local who is the country that is hosting the API Jeff and government is a very, very major part of that goal document, you know, usually the government is the one that
files.
a bit.
So at least on that level from organization to country level API Jeff has been able to find new hosts every year we have been to the Pacific we have been to South Asia we've been to East Asia, all across the APAC.
Since, of course after the covert Corona, lock lock downs and everything now.
The comments are a bit hesitant to spend that much of money in diversity in the conference but we were mostly going to have a comet next year as well because this year we have an organization which is a co host with us which is coming to the first part
about the government's participation the participation of the government officers let's say in the in the paragraph itself.
That has been in hand has been an area where we as the MSC have been trying to reach out to governments and to have more participation.
One of the things that we have, we have observed in in our analysis, and with our interaction with the comments is that public policy forums, governments feel a bit shy to be there.
Why, because not because you know they don't want to engage. That's because the discussion usually trickles down from the regional discussion from overall public policy discussions to national issues or to the issues which are more specific to the one
particular country or economy or territory itself.
Of course there are national ideas that are analyzed and national ideas and national schools and different internet forums on the, on a country level, but on a regional level when we talk about such issues there, there should be a more realistic approach
that we have to take.
I think in terms of in that sense of the matter we we have been engaging with the government's me as a government officer, engaging with a PR idea for the first time is a fellow back in 2017 it, I was a bit shy as well i mean i i didn't know what, what
should I say what should I not say that was the most important part, but should I not say at this at a Regional Forum.
But one thing about this community that you will find is that whatever you say is taken in a positive note. So, if there are government offices out there and there are comments out there that is what that is the message that you're trying to put across
that if you are here, and if you're speaking in any capacity that is we take that as your personal opinion, not as an opinion of the government itself.
And I think that is the beauty of a big of that is where it is different from other conferences where you are representing your, your organization or your but over here you are representing your own voice.
Of course my experience is a mix of government and civil society that influences my opinion of what I say here but that does not mean that this is what my organization is saying about this or that.
Of course you can talk about it in informal discussions over coffee table with one to one conversations but on the MC, you are in your own individual capacity.
So, we would of course like to engage with comments more on this. Thank you so much for making that call for governments to engage more which I think is critical with Gaia, if I can come to you next.
I think the other important stakeholder especially for Internet governance of causes the private sector.
They play a key role in decision making, around the things that happen online and on the internet.
So how do we engage with them more.
What do they look for when they come to processes like this. and how do we navigate are engaged with engagement with them much more effectively.
Thank you, Patricia thank you for putting this together and I think it's a, it's a, it's a really interesting and timely conversation, because the human experience with digital technologies is is made possible because different stakeholders, interact
with it, quite honestly we might not have the kind of digital advanced experiences today without the private sector, we won't have these experiences without civil society informing the needs that technology needs to deliver, especially if we look at the
field of education or health. It has been a very productive partnership.
When it comes to the private sector and the government, the pandemic has exposed the kind of public private partnerships that's become possible, not just possible that has become necessary, because they're all independent make the two sectors that saw
interests and investments. That was the health sector and ICT sector, but there is also had severe consequences for human lives for our rights and how we experience our existence in society.
So that brings us back to the question of if the internet is not possible without these different stakeholders interacting, then Internet governance is also not possible without all of these stakeholders, interacting and being able to put their perspectives
on the table and be heard and listen.
Now, my observation is that, or rather I would say my hope is that we would see more private sector engagement in internal governance processes of course, it exists and and private sector and I'm really glad that this year at the PRI GFP made a conscious
decision to make sure that the private sectors here, and that's improved. And I hope that going forward it improves.
Having the private sector be present at these at these spaces is really a useful moment for us as civil society as technical community as governments because we get to hear perspectives that we might not usually here.
Now, especially for civil society, it's a beneficial sort of an engagement in these processes because oftentimes, or at least that's my observation that our intersection or our interaction with the private sector is after the problem has evolved.
But this gives us an opportunity to hear and think about what kinds of problems could could possibly come up. Now, in terms of our interactions with the private sector the private sectors interaction with these processes.
A useful sort of framework that that that I think helps us navigate the space is the UN guiding principles on business and human rights because it clearly sets out the responsibility of the state to protect our rights, but also plays a significant emphasis
on the responsibility of the private sector to respect human rights, and for them together to make sure that we have access to remedies. Um, I think that's a really helpful framework for for processes such as the big of a big have to use to look at the
role of private sector, but also it's really important that as workers mentioned that we acknowledge that the private sector is not monolithic. not that all of them have the same kind of approach.
So that's important in terms of the limitations in our engagement with the private sector, I think, overall, access to the private sector has been difficult in the sense of who do you speak to, in a particular company, or who do you, who are the people
from a particular sub sector within the within the technology industry that that's been that's been an interesting challenge. And also, like, Do you speak the policy head Do you speak to the design had it is a complex sort of ecosystem in that sense,
but I would say that.
which means that there needs to be a very firm human rights based approach to the development of products, not just not just at a particular phase but throughout the cycle of products being developed.
And that means that different stakeholders need to be involved in that process of being able to inform understand the impact of technology and come up with solutions together.
So I would overall think that processes such as the big F allows us the space to put these perspectives out to take principled and solution oriented approaches but but really the main thing is that it has to be firmly fixed in firmly rooted in human rights
rights based approach the conversations. Thank you. Thanks so much, Diane thanks particularly for highlighting the need to have the private sector and spaces like this and to have conversations with them, so that we recognize some of the issues that come
up and have an opportunity to dialogue with them beforehand.
And I think now I'd like to go to you, Kelly because I'm really looking forward to hear your perspective on this conversation because I know that this is possibly your first time or maybe the first few times that you've engaged with the process like the
APR IGF, but that you're welcome to look at the scene that project does is very relevant for you to be a part of processes like this so that you can engage better with your constituencies back home.
So could you tell us a little bit about how your engagement has been so far. And what you find as challenging when you come into a space like this and you recognize that there are the stakeholders and that there is a way to engage with them but perhaps
not necessarily available to you at the moment.
Thank you, Bobby for the question. So, I would like to begin perhaps a bit of my background as to how I'm here today. So it was all because it started when I was still an undergrad, I real quickly, was involved in this space created by an organization
called mission constitutional Center for Human Rights. They had this weekly program that allows everyone to come together on specific weekly contents, or discussions of course, our mini talks by selected experts on certain topics that is relevant to the
people on the ground. So, At that point, that was how I knew, I met my current boss.
who is the coordinator as in a project.
He was involved in this project called my MP, meaning to say they're looking for volunteers to help compiling the data on the background of our members of parliament, because at that point of time.
We do not know our background like education histories of our members of parliament. Even the basic phone numbers, we do not have that, at that point of time.
So that was how I got involved at first, in this space, I knew him because of the space created by an organization that allows people gather everyone with the same interest, working on same classes.
It has no entry level, so it's really easy to begin with, that with that entry point and moving fast forward I lead our event to legal practice, and after I tend to explanation I happen to see a vacancy and snap project and that was how I joined the organization.
organization. So, coming back to another point which is I want to make the how I got opportunity to came to come here. It was because after joining senior project, I find that as a very.
I came from a legal background so I do not have any experience working in the right space.
So, I found myself struggling to know what sort of standards, or should I set myself, what are the skills that I should equip myself to work as a program officer.
And if you see how the program did utilize digital rights collaborative, hoping to build out the digital rights movement. I got this news, it was not even directly, I found it through the, our websites on I think it was just a newsletter for water by
a picnic, to my organization.
Apply and I got it.
And I was one of the very new members of the cohort, and that was how I got invited to speak here to give out my perspectives as a new entrant in this space.
So my experience coming to our internet governance spaces. It was rather unique because my earlier impression of this is really on high level of government, people come over here to talk about public policy issues.
I, that was my initial impression. And after joining or this is and I got to know this event true APC so after Johnny space I found that there are many few spaces level entry, one of these through our youth idea.
And I find that there's this opportunity where you can come here as a unit unit grad undergrad students, or even a post grad students, but for people like me, I missed that earlier entry point.
And I got to, I got to know, after I work for a few years down the road, but I'm not expert enough to call myself actually if any of the topics to give out my opinions as one of the main stakeholders in this space.
So for people like us. Are we would want to know what are the things to learn because I work mostly on internet censorship monitoring, to find out what other websites being censored.
In few of the countries in Southeast Asia. So, I know about this area, but Internet governance is so wide, I would like to also know the rest of the parts of this.
So to do that, I, I've tried, applying for like a bigger. Unfortunately I do not do not get it.
It's normal I think because applications is normal to feel, maybe I was just not convincing enough.
But I also another friend of mine who try to apply a VC, she did not get it as well. She came from a civil servant background and but she was not involved in any of the digital space before.
So, for people like us in between. We are not from the youth side, and we are not from the expert level, we find ourselves quite difficult to get into the capacity building aspects of things.
So, I think that is a challenge, perhaps, it could be interesting to know. Satish, what are the criteria for people like us because for the history, diversity aspects.
It will, I will fall under the normal age, that is not really a beginners. Age of things to say. So it's quite, I find it difficult for people like us to do that.
Yeah, I think that was what I want to talk about well thank you thanks, thanks so much Kelly for providing that perspective.
And I think it will be great to have such as respond but I'd like to go to the audience for us. But the one thing that I would like to say to you though, and I think that everyone in the room will agree is that you are a very important stakeholder in
this process as all of us are right. And I think it's to have you here and to hear you speak about this as equally important and enriching for this process, overall, so thank you so much for sharing your perspective and also for highlighting how difficult
it is sometimes when there are certain, as you said, groups of people for whom we already don't have spaces or entry points that are clear. And so it finds, then you find it harder than to navigate your way into the space under survey specific opportunities
provided for you. And I want to take this point across to all of you as well. And I want to ask actually first here in this audience.
How many of you are here at an APR idea for the first time.
Would you like to raise your hands. Oh wow, okay there are quite a few of you.
And how many of you have engaged and Internet governance processes before.
Okay, a few more. So there are quite a few of you for whom this is your very first experience, either with an Internet governance process or with the API gf, right.
And I'd really like to hear from you on how your experience has been so far, but also what you find a bit challenging, now that you're here and what you perhaps hope to happen or what you hope to learn over the next three days that would make this engagement
meaningful for you.
Is there anyone who would like to share your thoughts with us, it will be really great to hear from you.
Okay, so we have also people from the online audience I believe who would like to share.
Can we go to them first. Is there a way for us to read out the questions.
Yeah.
I'm Christine Can we have a mic to provide to me.
Thank you.
Hello. Emily and I'm supporting hobbies today.
Bobby today.
I have two comments in chat not really questions.
In response to what Kelly shared.
Someone called Kiki said this very much speaks to me. Thank you. It is a great question to pose and Zanna said thank you, Kelly for the question to Satish.
How do we cater for the in betweens, I too am here in this liminal space.
So while we wait for people in the audience to share your thoughts as well. And I think that if you'd like to, you can come up front in front to the mic here and share.
Maybe I'd like to first opposed to use at least the question that Kelly asked and that was repeating so much for the question and before I get into the question I should also perhaps raise the technical community angle that hadn't earlier.
I'm it's incredible support by, ethnic, that really resulted in this entire cluster of events coming together.
When we started out to this discussion several months back, we had no clue as to how this is going to turn out. And if you think of course is the technical community here.
So, I must point out that they did take the initiative in organizing this And for me personally, this is a cluster of about, about 10 different International Programs over the whole month.
From here I go to KL from K likely to Hyderabad everywhere that we have organized both games back to back. So this has happened because somebody has taken the initiative to suggest that we come together.
Otherwise, this would have been kind of too little too distributed, you know, kind of very weak, kind of a thing but this is very very strong. We have all come together.
And I think the credit for that does good to ethnic and the technical community here in Asia Pacific, which actually points out the fact that there is no systemic problem that impacts the ability of the technical community to engage.
They are very strong here.
The second point I'd like to raise before I get into the question is that this time, a big PPC, we have taken an extra step of having it as a receipt for people with disabilities.
This is new, we never had that before.
Our program, when we designed the program we found that some of the sessions which we thought was very interactive and all that could not be understood by the people with disabilities in the room we had two people who are blind.
So it's a learning experience for us, while engaging with the diversity. We encourage people with disabilities to come and participate, but not everything that we do is suited for them, which means we have to go back to the drawing board now to the question
of what to do with the in betweens, actually we don't we have nothing in between for us everybody's welcome, and there is nothing as age or background.
The only issue is that like was mentioned, this is a very vast area, and you have to catch on something and then specialize in it.
It is very difficult for someone to be a generalist across the spectrum of different domains within Internet governance. So it's, it is good if can kind of identify what you like, as your personal preference is a technical is illegal.
Is it social. Is it right. So, the Internet Governance domain provides for everybody. Of all age groups we have seen people who have walked in after retirement.
That's sort of you know bar at all. So the good news is that everybody's welcome.
The bad news of course is that we don't have spaces for especially funded the travel slots for people so this is a major barrier, although in, in theory, we can participate with zoom and online media.
In practice, there is a value to coming together like this, the people who are here are actually very lucky. And you have actually a great edge over others, a push, and this should serve you well into the future, and for the people who have not been able
to make it. My only advice would be to keep trying, especially at the, at their own national level. First, if they don't get to the regional levels, immediately.
Thank you. Thanks so much for raising two way important points. I think that we have people in the audience. Yeah, Please go ahead.
My name is Jenna phone, I am the program coordinators of the Asia Pacific youth, audio, we just have this huge ICF in this weekend and then we get a chance to meet of MSG member also put feature on at our meeting, like what sets you said earlier, whoever
is in this room right now is really lucky because we get to meet in person, and especially for us, or newcomers. Many of us didn't get to get fellowship, or the chances to me, but doesn't mean that we can't really engage.
So from our experience yesterday we had a discussion of why as you have also identify a few things. Of course, financial support from organization in order to participate is like one key factors that hint to whether you can be here.
But then, supporting on other area from organizations also important because young people are the new generations, even they don't get the chance to be here in the room physically, they want to engage and in our internet governance community there are
many other area that we should engage other than the event or the form only. And so I would say, we have so many young people joining from the virtual room here also.
And this is a good sign because what we do right now is like collaboration can bring us to to achieve what we want to do as a community, and then with this kind of conversations and support.
We believe that can improve, and then I believe there's so many new people in this room, and it's their first time to to be here. That's what take this chance to try to communicate and bring the notes and their output from that from that discussion here
because sometimes young people, they think their first time, especially we Asian sometimes we are like more reserved and shine and not tend to speak up right so like you, I was just like to bring this out here a few points, and I think from yesterday,
young people always seek support from organization and anyone in this community, not only financial, but like participation from MSG or other organizations will be a big support to younger people also.
So, that's my comments here thank you so much for your time. Thanks so much.
Would you like to go next.
Thank you so much.
Hello everyone my name is looking at from Bangalore, India, am a PhD scholar there.
In my early phase, and I broadly research on cyberspace and internet. And so I would like to respond to moderators question on our experience here like I'm for the first time I'm participating in any internet governance platform and APIs Yeah, of course.
And so, so far I have been reading literature on internet governance, how it functions, how it works, what, what, what it says trees and everything, but I wanted to participate in person in a big because I want to see how it actually happens, as opposed
to how it's depicted in literature, how actually multi stakeholder ism as a governance principle takes place, how all diverse views are taken into account, and so on and so forth.
So I'm really looking forward to observe this API is a very closely and see how actually it unfolds, and then take those insights into my research, so that it's more insightful thank you so much thank you so much and thanks also to you and Jennifer highlighting
the importance of actually being in the room. I know that our hands are the back as well yeah Would you like to go first and then to the person on the back.
Hello, I'm doing from Korea and I was a PR IDF 2019 fellow and now doing a PhD in Germany.
If, correct me if I'm wrong but ever since I come here, I haven't seen any people back from a period of 2019 fellow and I think there's something wrong here, because I think if you keep a fellowship, it should be something that should be continuously
coming up not too slow one time period and that's it. And when I see other people usually it's because they get to have a job that is not in the internet governance, like for example if you don't work for icon, I stock or something, it might be difficult
for them to have like one week lead from the company or getting approval from the supervisor. So if you are not the user student anymore. How would you be able to manage to come here in person even though you might be able to get the scholarship or something
for me I was lucky enough to get the support from Korea and German government to get the grant to come here, but not every country will have this opportunity to have some safe here in the US or fellow so I was wondering what are your a sword or your strategies
to keep the fellows, or new voices coming back. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
And thanks for raising that issue of sustainability right of people having more opportunities to engage on a more consistent basis is there anyone on the panel would like to respond to that.
Just one thing I'd like to mention here.
As you mentioned that you were there in 2019 as a fellow and you didn't see many of those fellows being repeated in this fellowship program for this year.
That is actually what we are here about empowering new voices, right, we have we have new fellows, because we want to reach out to more people, new people, it's not that none of the fairies has been repeated some of the fellows here are our second time
fellow but we also have a policy in the purity of that you know you don't get fellowship more than twice. Why, because we want to have new people over there.
Just to give you one little perspective on this for the fellowship criteria. We don't have more than two fellows per country, and one and then one male and one female.
Now if you see if you if you look at that structure we have around 30 fellows and we have like 52 economies and more than that in Asia Pacific, that, that sort of narrows down the process of makes this process very competitive as well you know.
And since we want to encourage new voices, new, new persons to come over and you know have this experience.
That's why maybe you don't see too many failures being repeated out there, and to your second point about.
I mean, we can, we got.
Make your employees, leave, give you the leave. But what we can do is do the second best thing, and the second best thing is to join us online.
Right. You can you can at least do that have listened to what is happening out there, and maybe keep your fingers crossed that you know next year you will have the leaves are a new employee and maybe.
Thank you.
Any other perspectives from the past. Yeah, um, you know.
Thanks Kelly for bringing those points up because I leaned over to tell her that she probably knows a lot more than she's letting down she probably knows a lot more than she thinks she does, but more importantly the people that you think are experts,
probably now know a lot lesser than you think they know because that's just how this field is because it's constantly evolving, and we're playing catch up because what we want our understanding was yesterday probably is not what it is today so it's it's
it's a constant learning process. So what you really need is that willingness to and to unlearn what you had, you know, convinced, what what you were convinced about yesterday and learn you know that's the first thing is that everybody knows something
and as experiences of the internet.
Actually, passively I think we have a voice so that that's the first important note. But the other thing I wanted to kind of just fly, is that they appear IGF is an extremely critical and important process, but Internet governance is not just what happens
in conferences, a lot of the decisions around Internet Governance happens outside conferences outside these processes, and it's possible for us to engage in probably these, these critical decisions are made.
Well, I had or after these conferences, and we had a lot of discussion yesterday about national idea of regional ideas. And I think that, you know, for people who are not able to make it to the regional ideas national ideas are a fantastic opportunity.
And if you're working for instance in in in private sector company then engaging in the policy processes of the company means you are engaging with the internet governance process.
It's multi stakeholder not just because it looks multi stakeholder it's it's about what we bring to the table. Right.
In terms of how do we build our capacity. I think that there are actually fantastic opportunities out there are resources out there that that's really, really, really helpful.
One of the things that comes to mind is what a PC has developed in terms of internet rights are human rights that goes back, I don't know how many years but it's still a very very critical sort of module the series of modules that you could use absent
has so many what is I sock has so many programs available, it and Nick has a lot of programs available. So, the internet is actually actually a fantastic resource, and you will be able to find what you're looking for, or you will find opinions online
and you know a lot of resources to help you navigate that, but also I just wanted to flag that one of the things that really makes a PR IGF special to me is that that chemistry of a PR idea is a combination of fantastic people, the people that have open
hearts open arms. You can you can pretty much reach out to anybody at their ministry and I'm sure they'd be happy to sit down with you talk to you about perspectives, for you the kind of resources they have.
Thank you so much and I I know that there are.
Yeah, I'm sorry there's one person in the back, who had their hand raised first and if I can go to them first and then come back to you if that's okay.
Thank you. Can you hear me. Yeah.
My name is Corey Chiarella, I am the CEO of trucks go.
And one of the experiences I would like to go to church is when we make the transition for ipv4 to ipv6. All the governments have been changed.
And we got many decisions about the resources, especially when you have you know few IPS when you get medium.
So, it was the first step we made it was a mess, then we have to chair of this the steps, really so that's the thing.
When you have this change.
You have to change all the organization to make the fits you want to be around to all the results resources to get work. So, that's the thing I wanted to thank you thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you so much. Um yeah please go ahead to the person.
Yeah, I'll go first and then. Thank you very much.
I have just three important point, you know, my experience shows like when we are talking about the inclusions and marginalized group in Asia Pacific region, the people who are really positive and welcoming and we are seeing.
There is the disability issues as highly as pause here and we're seeing many sessions and everything. But while we look up in the national level IGF, or international level.
We are really very frustrated, not many countries, national level chapters are highly motivated about the inclusion issues of disability issues. And now we need to raise this in the national level fast because if we cannot, cannot get the people from
the national level than international level not be more responsive. And lastly, the idea.
I think we many marginalized group are not getting chance to go there, talk there, as there is less opportunity. Yesterday, we got the chance but unfortunately I was unable to raise this issue.
They need some kind of status see how they can bring the more marginalized group in the global forum to raise their voice. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Thank you so much. Please,
just that all behind.
Yeah.
Hi, I'm we I was part of the as part of the ABSIG.
And I'm also not part of API right yes, this is my first time coming to these events.
And it's been very interesting I think my comments are more a reflection of what I've seen and what I hope to continue to see in the next year of the fellowship.
I want to recognize this that I mean I've heard diversity said, at least 1000 times over the last four days. And it's important to acknowledge that there needs to be space for diverse conversations and things but also.
It's a little frustrating hearing diversity said so often and this clubbing all these individual all these experiences and do we need to be diverse and then what is, and then you have like one solution to what is diverse because there's so many individual
experiences of diversity.
I've lost the following up.
So I think it's important, then and I hope that this is something that the executive committee will do.
Listen to individual feedback later on or ask for individual feedback either on on what made it diverse or each person, or if their needs were met, or how they could be made better because we did have a feedback session but with a lot of things that have
happened in the last week it's been kind of rushed because there isn't time and that's fine, there are restrictions and time.
And how much people can listen to anybody.
But I hope that we continue. I also want to recognize that it is very difficult to engage online I've been part of online conferences before. It's very boring sometimes even if it's very engaging in person.
We have remote sessions which were not as engaging and not because of the speakers, it's just a difficult way to communicate something to people in the room.
So I want to recognize that it is good to see and I'm not saying that this is a criticism of your idea but it is good to see that you can join online binary, but also recognize that it's very difficult to network online, or to take initiative, the way
that you can do in a room with physical people around.
And, yeah, and I do want to learn more about what the long term fellowship goal is and maybe this is these are individual conversations to have.
I have a great mentor high Pablo. So I hope that there will be opportunities that will be.
We will meet meet aware of later on in this year also like what is I. Somebody spoke about this, what is the goal for people joining back if they want to continue to be part of these pieces I stumbled on this opportunity absolutely by accident somebody
forwarded a newsletter to me. I would not have known about this, even though I kind of work in a similar space. So I want to know how these opportunities will be made available to us, or outside of just like newsletters and things like that.
That's all.
I mean,
this is just a common, but hers was a question.
I just want to share. Hi everyone, I'm you know from an Asia.
I've been in the space for probably the past few years. I started with YIZF, with not mention, and I totally agree with john that there needs to be a space for these fellowships fellows to come back and I think it starts with probably the organizations
and I would like to recognize, for example, if Nick is going to launch orbit soon and then we not mentioned fellows are on signal. So, I see that there are these efforts to bring back the fellows and come together, meet at events and looking forward to
future engagements.
I would like to see, as all like that point from Jenna on the empowerment. I believe what made me continue was the empowerment that I got from senior stakeholders, other organizations that have been so friendly.
And I would also like to call upon the youth to just come forward, ask your questions, just speak up, because there's no one in this space are going to see your, it's done.
No, it's a very open and positive space. And I just want to take this opportunity to invite everyone, I can is happening, the end of this week in Kuala Lumpur so if you have a chance to drop by registration is still open.
You can register on the website and maybe we can meet there. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for raising such fantastic points I think we have one more speaker and then I'm going to go back to the panel because we're almost at the top of the hour,
the person and the last focus.
So Hello everyone, I'm Alicia from Sri Lanka. So I just wanted to underline in talking with Gina and everyone's idea. I think you all know about the situation today in Sri Lanka, really, the situation is embracing the crisis for and everything is increasing
day by day. And really, I needed a talk in you, the present in my country as really there, I'm really wondering about this opportunity. And also, especially in Sri Lanka.
In this moment there is lack of things and everything like such a thing so me my friend Bovary today joined from Sri Lanka. So just reverse suggestion, as if we can start any initiative just as it is in Sri Lanka, really to support for us in our country.
And also just I mean hearing about others about the empowerment in our now country really personally me I was really bothering on how I thought I would not be able to join today.
So, in the, in the organization so really they're unable to help in us in funding and those things. So I use personally face number of problems in finding my findings and all those things.
So I just suggest if we can start any initiative in Sri Lanka, really to be held for so I hope we can get any opportunity to start something in our country.
Unfortunately we're almost at the top of the hour and I want to go back to the panel for some final comments but thank you all so much for sharing and I know this is just the start of the conversation and hopefully we have more time to speak about these
issues but I want to come back to all of you with some of the really important points that were raised right and I think the first of it is, when we talk about diversity and soft tissue races as well.
It's actually quite different from actually talking about diversity and then making sure we're able to accommodate all the different kinds of diversity in a way that's meaningful to the people who are engaging.
Second this issue of actually being consistent and having consistent opportunities for people to keep engaging so they don't drop off the map, in a sense, and really the kind of outreach that we can do to make sure that most people are aware of processes
like this and more people have opportunities to engage. So it will be great to hear final thoughts from all of you and Satish if I can start from yep so before I get into that, the APC secretary is from Sri Lanka she's a lady, please contact Erica.
For more details if you want to set up something to link my closing statement would be that please do not consider a project to be the destination. It is one step in the journey.
There are several parts out there. So, please, you know, spread out, you know, identify the opportunities and treat a project, as, as just one step in the whole process.
Thank you.
Because
I think one of the, one of the things that we would actually request a few, is to actually take the word out there.
If we are a Jeff is a forum it's it's it's a discussion forum, it's not a decision making forum.
We invite each and everybody anybody can register anybody can attend, there is no bar on anybody to come and who cannot join it.
And it's not just to attend the conference if you want to actually work with a PR agency if you want to work with the MSC we call it MSC the multi stakeholder group it is you're organizing part of the API Reggie if we actually don't need anything from
And that's it, you're in. All we need is your time and your dedication with it, nothing else. So, if you want to help organize this event, please join the MSC if you, if you want to see this event grow, just tweet about it just write about it just tell
people about it.
We can we can do all the columns that we that we have but if 250 people would come here to attend your 500 people who would come attend. They would spread the word that would of course, go faster than this.
Thank you.
I think that the discussion around diversity is probably what I'll focus on and I think it's a really important conversation and we've been having this conversation at APR idea for many years.
In fact, a couple of years ago we set up the stakeholder engagement Committee, which focuses on looking at how the different stakeholders whether the sectors, they are from gender, in terms of requirements in terms of geographical spread out.
What, what is that engagement looking like we've been we've been working more with data we've identified, which are the sectors which are the sub regions that haven't been as active as we'd hoped, and we've actively worked towards making sure they are
heard and we'd love to hear more about what that looks like. Because what is diversity is a question we repeatedly asked ourselves, and we are trying to push.
And so, I can assure you that it's not because of lack of interest.
We're trying and by and I'm sure that we can use more understanding we can use more intentional focus on it and I hope that next year we do a little bit more on the year.
Next, we do a little bit more, so that that's one and I wanted to echo, because this is called. Please join the ministry because that's the first thing we noticed at the stakeholder engagement committee and I think the chair and the vice chair here, partner
lunch.
That we need new invoices.
Might be a little sick of being the only ones that are there so please show up and I'm sure we'll find something to do together. Thank you, and Kelly over to you for the last word on this.
I want to say is that I echo what you have mentioned from participants about spaces. That is one. And what I mean by that is not just more opportunities for new people to join the Internet Governance Forum, but also more spaces are by people on the ground
that creates entry point for people that would one day lead to their presence to the IPR Jeff, or some other Internet Governance Forum. So for that to happen perhaps some support for more local organizations to create these spaces law conversations on
areas that will one day lead to your participation today. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much Kelly and thank you all so much for sharing what you have, I think it's been extremely insightful enriching to have this conversation and hopefully
given us lots to think about when we think about how to engage better, and how to make sure participation is better in processes like this.
I think that the Silvio very deliberate at the APR IGF when we thought about the team which is really about putting people at the center of processes like this and off decision making around Internet governance and I hope that today's conversation was
a stopping point for that, and that we can continue from here so thank you all so much. Thanks so much to the panel.
And thanks to all of you for sharing.